I managed to salvage the original discussion from my history. So…for those who didn't catch it:
Postby Sephith on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:36 pm
So…if you look at the New Adventures forum, you'll notice a thread I made the first week Charmander was up and going. None of the discussion there happened here, though; it was all copy/pasted from a temp board, from before I had even made this board. It was all about what I was thinking this place would look like and how it would operate. I was just reading through it, thinking I needed to make this kind of thread and organizing my thoughts. It's kind of interesting to read about how this place has evolved since then.
Just a few things, before I get into what I really want to talk about: we learned a few things pretty quickly. First, the single-thread, topic roleplays grew much faster than expected, and got a lot of love. Second, the term "epic roleplay" is pretty much redundant and pointless; the distinction really hurt the only one we attempted. Both of these things are fine, and important. As a result of the Epics not really working out, today's Charmander is a lot different from the one I envisioned…and we all love Endsaga, right, which just proves that there's nothing wrong with what it's become.
Okay, so…
One thing about the "original Charmander" that I want to try and incorporate in the future is the community aspect. There are a FEW things sort of in the works (RIGHT, Kwys? ;)) that work on that, but really, when it comes to the roleplays themselves…it's nonexistent. What I mean is I'm essentially in charge of everything. I worked against this in Endsaga by talking to almost every player on an individual basis and giving them stories/direction for characters (RIGHT, Nina, Kwys, Sarah?), but even then, the overall direction is pretty much in my hands. There's nothing to be done about it in Reset, at least not for a LONG while. Atwar is a new chance to let the players guide the roleplay, I think, and we need to take advantage of that.
We've all been commenting on how much I have to do, and you guys always offer to help however you can, but…well, it's hard on both sides for me to hand over entire parts of the roleplays to others. Let's be honest: with B&B, Jake did diddly, and with Atwar, Dy has done diddly up until recently. I'm not holding this against either of them - Jake's never been a roleplay head before, and he's lazy; Dy didn't have a lot to work with until recently (though - you didn't really help pick it up, Dy =P) - but it does prove the point that people are just…iffy about taking up the responsibility. And I'm iffy because they're iffy. I've tried a few times to jumpstart a new roleplay where you guys are in charge from the getgo - remember that, guys? - and that didn't work out so hot, either. Not all is lost, though. Nina has her low fantasy idea constantly in the works, which is good; we'll need something fresh like that once the current rps are done. We have new members with crazy initiative: Sarah, and the MIA Gatsby…
When I was thinking about this post, originally I was going to make a poll called "Role of the Roleplay Head", in which I asked you guys how much control somebody in charge of a roleplay ought to have. 'Course, this would change based on what the roleplay head wanted (example: my role in Reset, Gatsby's in his experiment)…but I was thinking, in general, the "role" should be well-defined. Especially for roleplays like Endsaga and Atwar, where almost everything in the story was generated by every player at random in the first three or four pages and then refined from there on (yes, that IS what happened).
Now, I just want a discussion. This is by far the most important issue I have with the way things work around here…the only real issue, come to that.
Just tell me what you think from being a part of this for the last 7- 8 months, or for those of you who're newer, what you've observed from reading posts.
I'll tell you, first, just to be fair: I want the players to be more involved. Point blank. Some of you are very much in the thick of things, you know who you are. This enables you to always have something to say when a decision is going down, because everything that happens affects your character (I'm thinking Kwys here…and others~). I'm pretty much excluding Reset here, because…as of right now, it is REALLY different from the other two, and I've been developing under a different set of rules. Some people's characters are less involved (Trill and Geanian come to mind, and Samuun in Endsaga), and thus have less to say than the rest, but…I'd like you to be part of things, anyway.
But even with the people "in the thick of things", I don't really get anybody telling me something needs to happen. Except Nina, lol. "We NEED to go to planets!" - which is exactly what I WANT to happen. See, before she said that…I hadn't even thought about visiting more places in Endsaga. All I have in my head is the overall arc of the story, which is - take Rosabella to the god king, deal with bitchy Krelian kids, CONTINUE to take Rosa to the god king. Another example of this is the new guy, Ex's Atwar character: in one profile, he introduced a completely new, docile, INTERESTING race and a third human kingdom, never asking if that was okay. Just did it. I like that. When you guys are more assertive, or just add in your two cents more often, it gives the roleplays depth it wouldn't have otherwise had.
As far as I'm concerned, my job here is to take all your ideas and make them fit together. Or let you know when they don't. Like with Atwar, right now, in my head, I'm putting together a much more organized map…which, because of Ex's character, has really widened and deepened. I'm thinking in terms of countries, regions, different ways of organizing the different race's homes, all of this stuff that wouldn't have occurred to me without his profile. Not anytime soon, anyway.
Endsaga can be so much more…with your help. And Atwar is just blown way too open as it is. So yeah.
Now let me know what YOU think. /taps foot
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Postby Josei on Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:24 pm
Well, since I'm still relatively new I don't have quite the same perspective on the forums as others, but here's what I have noticed.
When I first looked at the roleplays my initial reaction was, 'Whoa, wait, is Brandon heading all of these?' I haven't done much looking at EndSaga but with the other two I noticed that, yes, for a large portion of the story line you were. I'll be honest, this concerned me. I worried that it was too much for you to take on. I know you're in school right now which I'm sure takes up a lot of your time and the thought of you being in charge/mostly in charge of three RPs and having to deal with all the server issues the board had made me feel like something would get dropped. This is no fault of your own, but I think it points to what you stated earlier—more people need to be involved in the creation process. And maybe this is because we still have relatively few members but I really do agree with you when you say you want more people working on these. Actually, I'd like to head a roleplay at some point but I don't see that being possible due to where I am right now and my serious lack of original ideas. However, if at some point I have more time/internet availibility to do so I seriously have a desire to create my own story.
As for my characters right now, I'm kind of just hanging on and reacting to what people throw at me. A lot of this has to do with the fact that I'm still new to the board and the RPs I'm in but it's also because I'm just not sure where things are going. AtWar is a prime example. Geanian, by her nature I suppose may not be able to be involved with a main group, but I do want her to be involved in some way. Right now I'm pretty much strapped as to what to do with her and this is frustrating because I see the kind of potential she has. But perhaps, because that's such an expansive RP (or it could be) it might be possible for some of us to come up with some side-plots together that would at some point flow into the overall story. That's just a suggestion for people to start small until they can get a better feel for the plotting process.
One other thing I've seen is that even with just a handful of members there is an even smaller number of active ones. Granted, I can understand if people have RL stuff to do since I do to, or will once the busy season starts at work. But from time to time I worry we might be prone to falling into the Inner Dimensions trap (Nina, Brandon, Sarah, I hope you get what I mean by that). Perhaps the solution to this is to start recruiting more members. I have a friend who is a fairly active RPr and I've been debating suggesting she check us out but I've been reluctant to carry it forward since I'm not sure of her level of writing. Or if she'd have any interest. But if having more people in general would lead to more active members than I'll go ahead with that.
Last edited by Josei on Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dyallo on Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:40 pm
Well Sep I have to give it you this was very timely. In response to the Atwar stuff (which is the only area I feel confident in talking about) it's confusion is very much tied to it's concept. It was a loose concept to begin with which gave it the freedom to grow. This I will always assert is it's strong suit. Now as to my lack of participation in the beginning is one part my laziness in makin my one character inactive from the beginning and three parts the failed epic and lack of interest except for Sep Nina and I. And when you take it into account 3 people driving this monster there was no need to hurry. In light all of this with some prompting from Sep it was not long before I stepped back into the helm. Now the issue for AtWar is as he said discussion Sep and I have talked a lot but I never see anyone or have the means to contact them. So that's my two cents…
Postby Sephith on Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:29 pm
Just putting up Nina's reply, because the board was being slow and she had to go to work, so she put it up on the wiki. I'll hold off on replying till everyone's had a little more time to say something - course, if somebody says something that strikes you, don't wait for me. This is as much for me as it is for you.
Anyway, here she goes:
Man, alright, this is gonna be tough. Time to give my opinion on some things. We all know how much I love my own opinion, lulz. <3
First off, I know, I'm a bitch. You can all say it. I like my ideas, I like pointing out problems. I'm rather sadistic. Perhaps, in a different way from Sarah. I'm gonna apologize right here and now for that; I'm sure I've frustrated many of you, if not ALL of you, in the past with my… outbursts and bitching. I'll get more into that later, however.
Honestly, I love you guys and this board. I have never been in such successful roleplays before, (excluding the infamous Reality Blurred.) There have been some bumps along the way, but I really am happy to have come here and gotten close with all of you. I hope we can all keep this up, and become even better friends. Roleplaying is always more fun when you're friends with the other players. C:
But, since I don't have a lot of time before work, some serious stuff…
Seph does way too much. He's knows it, we all know it. Responsibility can be very scary, it's true. But, someone needed to grab the reins and keep us all together and willing to continue. Seph took up that tough job of wrangling us, and ended up leading the roleplays dilligently. I think, Seph, one of the biggest issues of trying to suggest things with the two older roleplays, At War is still way open, is that when we have thrown ideas at you, you have to shoot them down because it might conflict with something you have planned. Not blaming you for that, because you've done an awesome job with everything, seriously. But, that might be part of the reason why. We all know you have a lot in store for ES and Reset, a lot of awesome shit, but yeah. At least, I feel like I shouldn't even try to get in your way! Hahaha. Maybe we all need a little self confidence booster on top of that. Let's help our leader out!
I don't think any of you will disagree with me on this one. We all tend to really like our own ideas. I'm thinking we should work to remedy that a little. Perhaps, to not cling so forcefully to our ideas (myself included) and just blurt out ideas during discussion, be it on the board or on AIM. I know there has been some head butting in the past, a lot from myself, but… we are all part of this, and if someone questions your idea… no one here should take it personally. Just like an editor would question the ideas of an author, it is a process that will help improve upon the idea, or point out why it might not really work. I know that we can all be mature (myself included, again,) and do this.
Even throwing ideas out there in profiles or the actual roleplay can be awesome, as Seph pointed out with Ex-Soldier's character's race. This method might be best for more open/new roleplays, of course, and will likely generate the least conflict between roleplayers. But, older roleplays always need fresh ideas, so I don't know. Stepping on others toes, even though I just ranted about us not taking our ideas so much to heart, might be something we should all try to avoid. Even if you have an awesome idea, just think about it for a little while, and try to consider how this idea might affect the roleplay as a whole, and how it will affect other people's characters. We want to be spontaneous, which has proven to spark many awesome ideas and connections, but let's try to be smart about it, at least.
ARGH I HAVE MORE TO SAY BUT I HAVE TO RUN~
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Postby Stitchy on Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:30 am
Thanks for posting it up for me, Seph! <3
Well, to continue.
We've all got awesome ideas, so let's use them to our advantage. This will help not only Seph, but ourselves, out with the creative processes of our roleplaying. Josei is absolutely right that it's pretty scary that Seph has to head so many roleplays, on top of school, so let's all make an effort to take some matters into our own hands and pull our roleplays together. Here's looking at you, Dy. <3 That ends my thoughts on our processes. /salute
Inactivity is generally a problem, as Josei pointed out. But, the board's… instability… might be a huge part of that. I personally need to make an effort to come online more, but since I've been working a lot as of late, I don't know if I would be much help in AIM chats anyway. But, I want to remind you all…
The wiki has a forum.
If something needs to be said, you can ALWAYS post there if the board is being dumb. Especially in emergency, I think we should make the wiki our secondary meeting spot, as in a place you check as often as the board. It's hardly ever down, so the wiki is a prime spot to stop if you need to say something, get a hold of someone, etc. I know I've got a boner for our little wiki like whoa, but yeah. It's there, so use it. And on a side note, there is a news feed on the main page of the wiki, where we can all post notices about major changes to the wiki, or even the board. SO YEAH.
I'm always up for more people, too. We might need to try and not scare newcomers away, though. LOL. 8D And side-plots? Sound really awesome, Josei. Well, you've already proven it's awesome with Geanian, so, maybe the side-plot idea can give some new life and ideas to our roleplays. I think most of them already have a small element of that to them with the more loner characters, so we're off to a good start. The only thing we gotta watch out for is too much isolation, which can potentially tear a roleplay apart.
Super tired now uggghh. I wont say anymore until some others give their opinion. I'M JUST LETTING IT ALL FLY GUYS WOOOO
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Postby Kwys on Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:43 pm
First, before I state my opinion, I would just like to say that I have to agree with everyone’s comments and suggestions. Originally, I wasn’t going to post anything since a lot of very good feedback has already been produced. However, the more I think about it, the more I want to post something.
As you have all said, Bwandon really does have too much on his shoulders. He’s tackling this board and is pretty much running three roleplays. But as Nina said before, we have been pushed into a corner when it comes to generating ideas. We’re pretty careful of what we suggest because of plans that have already been developed. At the same time though, there are moments where ideas are just blurted without consideration to what else could be or is already going on.
I know it’s difficult for everyone to chip in an equal amount. Like Julia said, many of us are busy with work/school and other stuff. However, I think it’s best to say that we can all chip in for at least one of the three roleplays. Bwandon shouldn’t be leaning on himself when it comes to all the big decision-making. He should be able to come us, the members, for stuff like this. I know that he’s questionable about giving out head roles because people are iffy but perhaps we can take this one step at a time. Maybe if everyone steadily donates more, soon people will feel more confident in heading a roleplay in the future.
And this also brings up another point…
The wiki articles. They’re just as important as the roleplays themselves. With the board being a royal pain in the ass lately, this is a better time than ever to start articles. This way if something happens, we can look at the wiki and get information that we need. We really should put more emphasis on the wiki itself because Nina has worked very hard and it’s absolutely beautiful. Her suggestion of using the wiki forums is great. We can definitely use it if and when needed.
The more I think about it, the more I think I’m going to donate my time toward the wiki. With the board’s problems, the roleplays are a little slow and it seems like a perfect time in my opinion. If anything, we could all chip in a little toward our own characters since we know that information already. Also, we should help Nina out by learning some of the special wiki code. That way that’s less she has to edit in the future.
http://www.wikidot.com/doc:wiki-syntax
Here is some of the basic wiki code for those of you that are interested in learning. I’ve been studying this a bit and when I have questions, I come back to this article too. I posted this link because I seriously want you to go to it! *Points* I don’t want silly people to BS their way through their articles. This wiki, like Charmander itself, is a group effort. Charmander and the wiki deserve the same respect and we need to put work into both. Bwandon and Nina don’t need or deserve the work being thrown on them alone.
I personally want to do what I can for Charmander and the Wiki because I care a lot about both. I’ll do the best I can to help everyone out with their tasks at hand. I’m sure you all agree with me too. If we’re asked to help with a task, I’m sure everyone would do the best they can to assist.
Bwandon. Nina. All you two need to do is ask. Hell, everyone just has to ask for help. I’m happy Bwandon finally posted this thread because it allows us to talk about the flaws in the system. Charmander isn’t perfect but that’s why we discuss some of the issues and try our best to work those out. I’m sure I’ll have more to say later on (since I got pushed to do so) but for right now, I’m going to leave it at this. Thanks for listening to what I had to say about the matter.